Talk:Keeper
Please do not Disturb the Keepers --LeathamGrant 22:17, 24 January 2009 (UTC) ;) Where the heck is "The alleyway" ? :As you leave Chora's Den, facing the entrance to the Lower Markets, the entrance to the alleyway is on your left. -- Tullis 10:21, 2 February 2008 (UTC) Insect vs Arachnid OK, just made an edit where I stated the keepers had 6, not 8 limbs. I missed the smaller pair of grasping limbs. They do in fact have 8 limbs. That being said, I would still like to see support for the "apparently vertebrate" bit. SpartHawg948 12:28, October 7, 2009 (UTC) Well, i can't be certain, but it looks like it has a spine. I could be wrong, but you can see what looks like a spine, if you look at them from behind. --Gormtheelder 18:08, October 7, 2009 (UTC) :Well, you're right about one thing- you can't be certain. Saying they are apparently vertebrate because you think you see a spine is speculation, pure and simple. SpartHawg948 21:06, October 7, 2009 (UTC) * Given that they're insect-like but have eight limbs, wouldn't "Arthropoid" be a more accurate adjective? "any invertebrate of the phylum Arthropoda, having a segmented body, jointed limbs, and usually a chitinous shell that undergoes moltings, including the insects, spiders and other arachnids, crustaceans, and myriapods." --Logan Felipe 05:27, January 7, 2010 (UTC) :No, because that makes the assumption that they are invertebrates and undergo moltings, both of which are characteristic of arthropods. And given that they more closely resemble insects (a specific subset of arthropods) than arthropods in general (which also include, among other things, lobsters and crabs, which don't resemble keepers at all), I'd rather avoid changing it, as arthropoid seems even more vague (rather than more accurate). SpartHawg948 08:27, January 7, 2010 (UTC) Is any of this even applicable to extra-terrestrial life forms. They don't necessarily have to fall into any specific Earth families, so unless there is anything that states that the keeper is either, it should be kept off the page. Dtemps123 23:33, March 27, 2010 (UTC) :Yeah, the codex actually describes the keepers as an "insect race". This is one of the many reasons it's more accurate/less speculative to label them as insect, as opposed to arachnid or arthropod. SpartHawg948 00:47, March 28, 2010 (UTC) :: Well there is something that states the keeper is one, and I stand corrected. Dtemps123 03:02, March 28, 2010 (UTC) Keeper History Doesn't Vigil say that the Keepers were not created by the Protheans, but that they were the first species to be invaded by the Reapers? --Thenorthernman 09:35, October 10, 2009 (UTC) :I'm not 100%, but I think he says that even the Protheans were not sure whether the Keepers were a species that had been conquered by the Reapers or if they were in fact created by the Reapers. I'll go back and get verification on that (provided I don't forget to do it tomorrow!) SpartHawg948 09:48, October 10, 2009 (UTC) ::In fact, upon a little closer examination of the article, it actually says precisely that in the article. You may have just seen the intro paragraph. We do not, of course, post spoilers in the first few paragraphs. All the information I provided above is in fact in the article below the spoiler warning. SpartHawg948 11:27, October 10, 2009 (UTC) ::: I have a feeling that in ME3, a great deal of information will be discovered about the Keepers. Or at least I hope so.Veniathan 01:55, February 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::I hope we learn they're full of chocolate, and are made of rainbows and dreams! For some reason, I don't see my hopes being fulfilled... :( SpartHawg948 00:11, March 7, 2010 (UTC) :::: I believe the Keepers were the first race to exist and they created the Reapers. However the Reapers revolted and turned the Keepers into slaves using a mind conrol indoctrination. - Salarian Scientist, July 14th, 2010, 10:47 PM. Missing category How the holy heck did we miss putting this page in Category:Keepers for so long? Poor uncategorised keepers. We are bad, bad people. : ) --Tullis 17:49, November 27, 2009 (UTC) Unsourced Comment "Seeing as the keepers are now useless to the Reapers, Sovereign sought to replace them with a more controllable race, like the geth, believing synthetic races were more predictable and malleable to its wishes." What's the source on that one? I wish I could find that little source tag, I would have just edited and appended that there, but... sounds like speculation to me. Sounds like good speculation, but I don't know what the source would be on that. Boter 22:27, December 19, 2009 (UTC) :The source was the game. The entire plot of the game. Also, I believe that Vigil states something to that effect when explaining what they Protheans did to the keepers, but regardless, the game was the source. SpartHawg948 23:18, December 19, 2009 (UTC) ::I've played through a ton of times, and never caught on to that being the reason for Sovereign using the geth ("you must think me incredibly dense"); I thought he was using then to get to the Citadel, but not having them supplant the Keepers. The more I think about it, the more I think that the geth are too advanced, too intelligent to take over for the mindless Keepers. I imagined Sovereign reprogramming whatever makes the Keepers to set them back to their baseline. The Reapers made the Keepers once; they can re-make them again. Eh, whatever, I'll make sure to grill Vigil on my latest play-through. Boter 03:50, December 20, 2009 (UTC) :::Actually, it's not known whether the Reapers created the Keepers, or merely enslaved them. That's something else Vigil tells you. It's also stated here in the Keeper article. But basically, since the Protheans rendered the Keepers "inert" and thereby prevented them from carrying out the Reapers orders, the Reapers needed someone else to carry out their wishes. Who better than a race that worship the Reapers as gods? SpartHawg948 03:54, December 20, 2009 (UTC) Keepers and Reapers This is pure speculation, and I don't expect it to be included in the article, but upon completing Mass Effect yesterday, I had a thought. What if the keepers are the bio-engineered descendants of the race that created the Reapers? *Hypothesis: The ancestral Keepers created the reapers as a fleet of advanced multipurpose capital ships with the power to indoctrinate their foes. Over time, unbenounced to the their creators, the Reapers evolve and achieve Artificial Intellegence (much like the Geth). The ancestral Keepers task the Reapers with building the Mass Relays and the Citadel. The Reapers comply, using their indoctrination to give them true control over the designs. Being under indoctrination, the ancestral Keepers in question are unaware that they're being manipulated by the Reapers. At some point after the completion of the Mass Relay System and the Citadel, the Reapers mobilize against their creators, destroying all other evidence of their civilization and enslaving a significant number of ancestral Keepers. Due to sustained indoctrination, the ancestral keepers have become little more than husks. Over time, the Reapers guide the evolution of their enslaved creators through artificial selection and bio-engineering, using them as tools to maintain the Citadel. Pure speculation, but I thought it seemed plausible. --Logan Felipe 21:08, January 5, 2010 (UTC) :I don't think it is something that would have happened to the keepers without noticeable changes in the Reaper behavior. If indoctrination was a tool the keepers used, it would have been something they were immune to. That's why chemical weapons are not used often or a popular warfare tool. If the Reapers changed indoctrination to the point where keepers could be affected, they likely would have noticed, much in the same way you notice other people are sick or a seemingly normal behaving person is still off in some way.--Xaero Dumort 21:12, January 5, 2010 (UTC) *True, but even if the ancestral Keepers found out, the Reapers were still a massive fleet of powerful warships. Even if the ancestral Keepers tried to develop a way to resist indoctrination, their efforts would be greatly hindered by the Reapers who would likely make an offensive if they were discovered. Descriptions of indoctrination in the game state that by the time indoctrination is noticeable, it's usually too late to do anything about it. In Mass Effect, Shepard can visibly tell something's wrong with the colonists on Feros, but when he or she finds out that the Thorian is controlling them, the Thorian knows that Shepard knows, and openly attacks the player's team with creepers and colonist thralls. Being discovered by the Keepers could also have served as a catalyst to cause the Reapers to openly revolt, much as the Quarian race's attempt to shut down the Geth upon discovering their AI capabilities resulted in the Geth openly revolting and subsequently driving the Quarians into exile. Specifics aside however, is it not plausible that an ancient advanced civilization created the Reapers, and that they, one way or another, were enslaved and bio-engineered to become Keepers? --Logan Felipe 21:53, January 5, 2010 (UTC) ::Don't get me wrong, it is all very plausible, but I think creation using templates and not the originals themselves would be more so. Wipe out their creators and using their genes create a subservient race. Why just indoctrinate? There is always the risk that someone could break it or be rescued and a weapon for the demise of the Reapers discovered. Why take the risk? But maybe the keepers are a creation from the template of the Zeioph or even dealing with the crypts on Klencory. :It's certainly plausible, but provable and plausible are two very different things. And unfortunately Sovereign isn't very helpful. All it says is that no one created the Reapers, they always were. And it is worth noting that when Vigil brings up the Keepers he posits that they could be a race that were enslaved by the Reapers, or a creation of the Reapers, but not that they may have been the creators of and later victims of the Reapers. It's hardly conclusive, but it is worth noting that there is at least circumstantial evidence against the Keepers being the creators of the Reapers, and currently none in favor of. SpartHawg948 22:35, January 5, 2010 (UTC) More speculation.. Perhaps the "backpack" they have is involved in controlling their actions. Either by directing an otherwise unintelligent creature to do the work for the citadel, or, perhaps, blocking the free will of an otherwise intelligent race. There's also the question of why the Reapers would need the help of the Keepers to activate relays or whatever.. If the Reapers are machines, and the citadel is a machine created by them (controlling the keepers), wouldn't they be able to communicate directly? 16:07, January 23, 2010 (UTC) Citadel Race? Why are the Keepers filed under "Citadel" in the box at the bottom? I thought that was for political status, not whether or not they reside in Citadel Space. 07:04, March 24, 2010 (UTC) :Well, it's not just that they "reside in Citadel Space". They are also the race most associated with the Citadel, other than the Protheans. They do, after all, reside solely on the Citadel. They are the one race responsible for keeping the Citadel up and running. They do seem to have some sort of symbiotic relationship with the Citadel (although that phrase may be pushing it a bit), they keep the Citadel up and running and somehow their numbers are maintained at a constant level even when one is lost due to outside tampering. Stating that they only "reside in Citadel Space" would seem to be understating it in this case. SpartHawg948 07:28, March 24, 2010 (UTC) Taking a quote too literally I figured that, since this one is open to some interpretation, I'd bring it up here before taking any action. The article notes in the ME2 section that, during the repair efforts on the Citadel, the keepers "have surprised everyone by proving that they are heavy lifters." Now, as it just so happens, I was playing through the very portion of ME2 where this comes from, and I'm pretty sure that it's an example of dialogue being taken too literally. When I heard Anderson say it, the impression I got was that he meant they were capable of 'heavy lifting' in the metaphorical sense, i.e. doing hard work (http://www.answers.com/topic/heavy-lifting- a definition). After all, it seems obvious that it was known before ME2 that they could lift heavy things. Remember the conversation you could overhear in ME where the woman complains about the keepers rearranging her entire office? I'm not 100% sure about future furniture, but present-day office furniture can be pretty darn heavy. I'm fairly certain that when he made the heavy lifting comment, Anderson meant that nobody thought the keepers did anything other than routine maintenance and tidying up. Come to think of it, maybe I will remove that line. If someone disagrees, they can say so here, and re-add the bit. SpartHawg948 08:31, July 12, 2010 (UTC) :I agree. This stuff happens all the time though. I remember back pre-release someone edited Joker's page to say he literally broke his thumb on the mute. JakePT 09:17, July 12, 2010 (UTC) :: Well i a fairly certain they have at least normal human strength, maybe extra strength. But they do control everything i am surethey would just turn off gravity if theywanted. But nobody definitively ever says they have super strength ralok 09:26, July 12, 2010 (UTC) :::The problem is not how strong they are. It's that the quote states that them being heavy lifters caught everyone by surprise and someone took it literally to mean that people were surprised how strong the Keepers were.Bastian964 17:59, July 12, 2010 (UTC) ::::I'd have to agree with the metaphorical interpertation on this one. Heavy lifting, as I have heard it, also can mean that someone did a lot of work, which Anderson also states. We don't know their actual strength, so the metaphorical interpertataion to me seems like the most logical one. Lancer1289 18:04, July 12, 2010 (UTC)